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| Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? |
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zen_blues_dog writes 
Michigan musicians are losing the battle for live music engagements. More and more the clubs are buying into the DJ / kar aoke syndrome.
Look in any entertainment section in any newspaper and count the number of clubs that used to have "Live" music that now feature DJs and Karaoke. Don't look good does it? But why have these clubs turned on the hard working musician? Click "Read More" below.
MONEY, that's what club owners will tell you up front. But I think there's another reason: back stabbing between bands trying to get these jobs. One band wants $400 a night, [which if you ask me is about 1973 wages] then some less talented or more selfish weekend warriors, [who primarily play for women and beer] will play for $250 a nite or less. Then even bigger sharks appear, the DJ's/Karaoke people will do the job for $150 a nite. That's pretty good pay for one person. What's odd is some of DJ's & Karaoke hosts are getting $400 and $500 a night and sometimes even more!
So, what is the solution? How can Michigan Musicians win back those clubs and get newer clubs to hire us? We used to have a union. I remember it working quite well for a long time. But then some of us said, "Oh Hell, I don't want to pay union dues. I'll just pocket that money every time I work!" Soon, everybody was leaving our union for the extra little money. The union used to help get us wages commensurate with the times we lived in. It used to make sure that clubs hired only union musicians and bands.
The club owners weren't dumb, and when we started turning on eachother they took total advantage of the situation and saw an opportunity to save some money and get rid of those union guys who [rightfully] kept raising thier prices.
There are still places where the union protects it's members and keeps the work rolling in. But, that ain't Michigan. Don't get me wrong, I know the times have changed, and it will be very difficult for us to save ourselves, and stay in the entertainment business around here.
The first thing we can do is start keeping our prices in line with eachother. Check with your local union rep. and see what's new with our union! If we stick together, and show eachother a little Love, maybe, just maybe we will pull it out, and "Keep Live Music Alive" here in Michigan!
There is Power in numbers my Brothers!
zen_blues_dog
Editor's Note: For those interested in finding out more about local music unions, here's a list of American Federation of Musicians (AFM) Locals in Michigan.
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by onlinebands on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 @ 07:39:05 MST
(User Info | Send a Message | Journal) http://www.onlinebands.com/ | Unions are not going to get the clubs to get more bands to play if you are not bringing in fans. Bottom line is there are more people who want to go dance to a DJ at reasonable volumes than see the typical loud rock band.
How is your union going to increase the number of people going to see live bands? |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by NeuralDisconnect on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 @ 07:57:17 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I have seen the changes you speak of, I wont say it is the main reason but there are alot of bands who dont do much to draw....Not in promotions but actual quality product that competes with the national standards. I see Sloppy performances, lack luster stage shows,boring wardrobe,bland boring songs,crappy equipment(sounding bad)
I will admit I was guilty of some of these crimes years ago but realized to be sucessful you have to compete with a national mindset. And playing crap show after show with no improvement only makes it worse for all of us.There are bands who work and are working hard and they are finding success but the rest need to go back to the basement and work on the product. I remember years ago you could not play the bigger venues if you were not on top of your game and now it seems crap bands can play anywhere once again souring the club owners to live bands, Once we all improve ourselves the tide will turn if you suck bands have not ruined it for us already. I listened to some demo here a while ago and everybody was blowing sunshine up their ass, NO ! The song might have been great if it was tight and played with emotion but it was not, It was sloppy it lacked the spark and attention to detail that seperates them from a national band. I wanted to tell them but figured it would be more of a pain than anything else.The unoin is a good idea but there would have to be a filtering process kinda like needing a journeymans card to be called a professional whatever otherwise the union will be protecting what is killing us.
I will say again.....there are quite a few bands who are playing at that" level"
and they get noticed and play the best gigs but the rest need to stop until they are ready. Play parties, rent a hall, build your following and hone your music/stage performance then bring it out, you would be surprised what doors would swing open when you have a draw,Remember... in truth we are not competeing against each other....we are competeing against the nationals,that Is that where we would all like to be Right? I am not saying all this to bash people but to try to make it better,Would you not tell a friend he or she has a booger on their face? well? sure it might be funny but remember you are standing with booger face. |
Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by Mitch on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 @ 08:23:52 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.michiganbands.com | | I agree. It would be nice if there were some kind of ISO (International Standards Organization) for live performance and a seperate one for independently recorded work. Perhaps more than one level for each. The difficulty is in measuring those standards. Who decides? It used to be that barowners would hire agencies who screened the performers first. If you don't deliver top-notch entertainment, you don't get the commissions. |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by MusicMan on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 @ 09:55:31 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) | A union would be (at best) a waste of time of not a further deterrent for clubs to not hire bands. The basic problem is supply and demand. In today’s popular culture, most club-goers are not interested in a live band. They want do dance and hook-up. It doesn't make sense for a club to hire a band for $450 a night to draw only a small minority of the club going demographic. Hire a DJ to play CD's for a fraction of the price and fill the club. It is basic economics 101.
It sucks, but it's true. Until people at large are interested in live music again there will be little to nothing in the way of good clubs to play at or see a band. It’s circular and will (probably) come en vogue again …..In the mid to late 70’s when disco was kicking rock clubs asses it was probably a very similar situation?? Then there was the heydays of the 80’s where rock clubs reigned supreme.
MM |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by forsaken on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 @ 03:33:26 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.forsaken.us | I agree mostly, some bands have no buisness playing out yet, playing the same shows we do and ruin it for the people that came to the show. Or a really great band (like one I know) does nothing to promote themselves or even try to get people to come to shows. Club owners hurt when nobody comes threw the door, soon they try switching formats or go for a dj. They dont have a choice but to switch if the moneys not coming in, and soon the bands are out.
I have also noticed its much harder to get people to shows in the detroit area, if you play out of town at all you'll see a much better turn out then most detroit venues. To many bad shows for people and they stop going, or even bad neighborhoods have scared alot of people away, say like Harpo's. I know alot of people wont go to harpo's because of all the bad stuff that happenend there in the past. Now its better but people still think they are going to get shot, or beat up by some skinheads. |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by theBallistics13 (blah_blah_blah@theballistics13.net) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 @ 19:22:32 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.theballistics13.net | I think that a union would be used to keep the in crowd in and all others in the basement. It's organized favoritism.
I'm in it for the fun. Part of my/our fun is playing out. There's allot of people that think our type of music (punk) isn't even music. If it would be the purpose of the union to filter out all the substandard bands who sets the standards? The bands in the union? I'll never go see any of them play. |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by Mitch on Friday, February 13, 2004 @ 06:07:17 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.michiganbands.com | Good point. Standardization completely goes against the punk ethos and exclusion would inevitably occur if the entire live network were union.
We've got three different worlds in live music - those who do it for fun or a hobby, those who do it for extra cash and those who depend on live gigs to make a living. |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by theBallistics13 (blah_blah_blah@theballistics13.net) on Friday, February 13, 2004 @ 06:34:31 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.theballistics13.net | I realize my comments were a bit short and not wrote out very well but thank you for interpreting what I really meant.
Maybe the clubs that cater to different types of music could also have a union or non-union band night.
Would the musical standards placed on the bands also lead to proficiency standards for the individual musicians. Can they sight read, do they know their scales, do they know cord progressions and voicing?
What about a training program? And un-employment? Health benefits?
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by NeuralDisconnect on Friday, February 13, 2004 @ 10:07:48 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I think my original meaning of "National standards" is slowly moving away from its original meaning. When I say national standards, I mean national touring bands, and their level of professionalism,Most if not all of the "Big" acts in whatever style of music dont come out on stage and suck, sure there is the occasional bad show...it happens but otherwise they deliver musically, visually and the production. Tell me you dont stand there when a terrible band is on saying to yourself "this blows" and only because you or a friend is playing you stay. I play strictly for fun personally and part of that fun is delivering a "National level" performance everytime I play, I like it when people think we are some national act. I rehearse 3 days a week with the band and the other 4 days working on my own performance or gear then time with family and so on...oh and did i mention I work 7 days a week 12 hrs a day I am not looking for sympathy I choose to make the effort to be better, my whole band does. I think what I am trying to say is ....strive to be better as bands not that everybody sucks and should stay home,maybe then bars will want us. playing out is way tooo much fun which is what the article is about ... we are losing places to play. what other suggestions do you have. I was just picking one of many possible solutions to "our" problem. |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by NeuralDisconnect on Friday, February 13, 2004 @ 10:31:16 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) | And by the way, I dont think my band is perfect either. We constantly find stuff to improve on.
And when we played out the first time we were together for 6 or 7 months, If we had played out sooner it would have been good but waiting made us even better and doors opened alot faster. |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by fish (roncefish@yahoo.com) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 @ 11:03:26 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.simpaticobuttons.com | LIVE BAND KARAOKE! and slip original tunes in so that those people at the karaoke bars hear your stuff.
it could be worth a shot. if the bar owners are willing to shell out $500 to pay ONE person with a machine, they should be willing to pay a live band at least as much to give its patrons the "rockstar" experience of singing with a real live band. |
Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by Diehard on Thursday, February 12, 2004 @ 16:33:41 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://none | Interesting idea, but do you know any bands that can play 200 cover songs well enough for barflies to follow? Maybe a wedding band, but they'll charge way too much to make it feasible.
I agree with the supply-and-demand theory for what's killing live music. There are too many bands out there, too many who aren't ready for the stage, and too many who are good but play material with too narrow appeal. Demanding more money won't do any good when the public's not buying. |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by wiki on Friday, February 13, 2004 @ 19:05:32 MST
(User Info | Send a Message | Journal) http://www.myspace.com/old27 | | I don't even think this applys to original artists/bands. Nobodys going to pay shit for a half hour or 40 minute set of original tunes anyways. I think these are working (cover) musicians that are trying to unionize. Non the less I think the idea is stupid. If you can't negotiate your own band's pay with club owners then you have no business being in the music business. |
Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by legs on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 @ 00:02:46 MST
(User Info | Send a Message) http://sylviatrench.com | | I think that in Michigan as any other place you have the times where there are peaks and valleys. As long as there are radio stations, newspapers and internet sites that are willing to promote live music then it will never die We need to believe in what we are doing and stick together. Live music is going to come back in strength. It takes one band in an area to be sighned for the rest of the bands to be looked at. It also takes bands to set aside differences and work to gether to tell the masses what rocks...I believe that they will follow..SO get off your ass and promote! |
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Re: Have Michigan Musicians Lost the Battle? (Score: 1)
by Mitch on Saturday, February 14, 2004 @ 12:19:39 MST
(User Info | Send a Message | Journal) http://www.michiganbands.com | This is from user "MeMyslefandI"...(was posted to the wrong thread)
I am just wondering if anyone has any real statistics about how many live gigs are available. I wonder if the problem might be not that there are less gigs, but that there are more bands. More bands, easier to get, price goes down.
Every body and their brother plays the guitar. The best places for bands are places that get a reputation for good music and people know they can show up and see a good band.
A lot of owners want to know how much someone can draw. This works for a gig or so, but no band can bring a crowd of friends consistently. So eventually the bar and the bands end up with empty nights.
Often a band that can draw a good crowd of their friends one night, stinks and may actually drive away potential return customers that hear said stinking band.
There is one more thing I am curious about. Any club that plays pre-recorded, copyrighted music, is supposed to be paying royalties.
If clubs are having DJ's, and not original music, than they should be paying royalties, thus driving up their costs.
I wonder how many of these clubs are paying royalties? If that hammer came down on em they might hire more bands
Mike |
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Average Score: 4.5
Votes: 8
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